Merely ‘Ellen’s’ name stays a puzzle, here appears to be zero-one to titled Ellen or Helen, except possibly an ‘Eleanor’ on Joanna’s side (Eleanor regarding Aquitaine, mother off Joanna’s dad King John)
Hello, folks. It is its fascinating; the things i would not provides provided to gain access to this short article twenty-five years ago once i is comparing and you may composing Here Feel Dragons!
The primary aim of which exercise is to use, because of the a review of genealogist’s opinions about the subject and also by asking some known completely new supplies, to choose who had been the caretaker off Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Is she Joanna, wife regarding Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Born circa.1188, died. March 1237) or was she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch regarding Rhos, mistress from Llywelyn, produced circa. 1168, died??
I’ll follow this that have a holiday study toward you’ll existence of an excellent ded Susanna, given out to King Henry 111 as the an effective hostage in the 1228 with her infant custody getting granted so you can Sir Nicholas Verdun and his wife Clementia.
The latest viewpoints of one’s Genealogists that we has actually learnt are just one to, feedback, and they disagree considerably. No unique proof is available either way, but i have to state that the vast majority of keep to have Gwladus to be the latest child off Joanna. This is particularly true of the genealogists of the descendants of the brand new De- Braose family, nonetheless they ily is linked with both the Welsh and English regal property!
https://brightwomen.net/fi/moldovan-naiset/
The following list regarding Llywelyn’s several genuine and you can illegitimate college students seems become generally acknowledged by most of the genealogists that we keeps analyzed except for distinctions more than whether or not number 9 very stayed. The brand new dates out-of delivery given below are also debated from the some:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, born circa.1199, died 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, produced circa.1206, died 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1208? died circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince of Wales, produced circa 1208 (1211?) (second thoughts regarding it time, look for later on), passed away 25 February 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1209 died 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1210, passed away 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – created circa 1210, it is possible to twin in order to Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, or ‘Susanna’, born circa 1214? Died 1259?
Discover far argument across the title of one’s moms and dads out-of these types of children. There can be standard agreement that merely certain college students of Llywelyn’s elizabeth Prince off Wales and you will Ellen (Helen) whom married (1) John this new Scot, young buck of one’s earl off Chester and you may (2) Robert de- Quincy. Even if opinion are split up along the mothers regarding Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you may Susanna, almost all of the genealogists We have examined slim with the the mother getting Joanna.
This can be partially through its going schedules out-of birth due to the fact better since their marriage ceremonies to several marcher lords exactly who, that supposes, could have sought for so you’re able to line-up their homes compared to that of its neighbor, the brand new Prince off North Wales and his wife, new king out-of England’s child. It’s felt that such lords of February would not had much interest otherwise political inspiration inside marrying regarding the sons on illegitimate daughters off a good Welsh prince having an effective Welsh lady.
From what labels ones children, whether or not because of the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise anybody else, they were the entitled once people in Llywelyn’s household members:
Ken, we are completely on the loans
Llywelyn’s mom is actually titled ‘ed ‘Susanna’ away from Gwynedd. Their paternal grandma is actually named ‘Gwladus’. Mom and dad off his grandma Susanna, was in fact ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you can ‘Angharad’ from Flint and each other the brands were given so you’re able to Llywelyn’s college students. That it Susanna also got a sibling called ‘Gwenllian’, an equivalent label as the Llywelyn’s great-grandmother.